Stock-length dropped pitman arm?

Patrick Morris · 06-30-2008, 08:01 AM

...for Scout II?

Hi Jeff. Is there such a thing? Seems that all the DPAs I've seen are considerably shorter than the stock (~9.5" eye-to-eye) pitman arm, and this has been a source of complaint to those who've tried them. By all accounts, a DPA seems to be an effective treatment for bump steer in a lifted Scout---but nobody likes the slower ratio and higher turning radius the available DPAs produce.

I guess your Hi-steer setup is one solution to the bump steer problem?... but let's face it, it's a lot more desirable to buy one part for less than $100, vs. many parts for many $100s, not to mention the complicated install.

Truth is, a lot of folks like me would never spend the money and time on the Hi-steer, but would love to have a lowered pitman arm if one were available with the correct geometry. And a guy like you could probably make a little money producing such a thing. You'd sure have the market cornered.

EDIT: I should add, the complaints I've read were not directed at your DPAs. I'm sure yours have practical applications or you wouldn't be offering them. I just think there might be a market for a DPA that's a drop-in for a Scout that has a bit of SUA lift (4"-springs, longer shackles, etc.) and uses the stock drag link, TR, etc.

ihojeff · 07-01-2008, 08:29 AM

In a nutshell - There is no such drop pitman arm that is the proper length for Scout II and at this time it is something that I am not interested in persuing due to the costs involved.

Patrick Morris · 07-01-2008, 02:38 PM

Okay. Thanks Jeff. Understood. That's too bad. Seems it could be a nice fix to a common problem. I guess it's moot to wonder why all the available dropped PAs---Skyjackers for example---aren't made to the full length of a factory PA. (Maybe they are modeled on none-P/S pitman arms?)

ihojeff · 07-01-2008, 06:00 PM

Its definetely a nice fix to a common problem but I can see why they are not made. Its such a long pitman arm to begin with and then add in drop that sure is a lot of leverage being applied against the sector shaft. I'm sure liability insurance on that would be quite high.

Patrick Morris · 07-03-2008, 10:15 AM

That's an excellent point; and one I hadn't considered. Thanks. Darn, the High-steer would likely cure any Scout's bump-steer, right? It's too pricey and involved a project to really consider, but I thought I'd ask.

What about your #1 pitman arm? That's got a 3" drop and a 6.5" reach. Have you sold any of those to owners of Scouts with slight (3-4") of SUA lift? And if so, did you get any feedback from them?

For the record, I'm using Skyjacker "2-inch" springs, your 5-inch shackles, and 3-degree shims between axle and springs. Uneven pavement tends to make the truck wander all over the place, and I'm blaming the angle of the drag link.

ihojeff · 07-04-2008, 05:49 AM

Hi-steer is for SOA. Yes it will work for SUA but chances are the tierod will be an inch or two away from contacting the oilpan.

Our #1 pitman arm is the same as the Scout drop pitman arm so no go there.

From what you describe it sounds like you need more caster. If you haven't yet go get an alignment and verify your alignment readings before throwing more parts at it.

Patrick Morris · 07-05-2008, 03:21 PM

Right. Thanks again Jeff. I started a thread about this on the BB, just to get a wider consensus. Maybe you've seen it. The other sages there say the same thing as you, and I've arrived at the same conclusion. I will verify that my caster isn't out of whack before fooling with pitman arms. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to find out it is off though.

I figure it's smart to go ahead and replace my drag link and TREs though. They are pretty old. I'm also thinking about that Borgeson thing still. I was hoping they'd go on sale again, but maybe it's not worth waiting forever. I'll give you a call one of these days to place the order.

DRAG LINK question: I'm assuming it allows adjustment, correct? What's the max and min for that adjustment?

ihojeff · 07-07-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Morris

DRAG LINK question: I'm assuming it allows adjustment, correct? What's the max and min for that adjustment?

The tierod and draglink are adjustable by about three inch's.

06-30-2008, 08:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
Patrick Morris Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Member Number: 148 Posts: 32	Stock-length dropped pitman arm? ...for Scout II? Hi Jeff. Is there such a thing? Seems that all the DPAs I've seen are considerably shorter than the stock (~9.5" eye-to-eye) pitman arm, and this has been a source of complaint to those who've tried them. By all accounts, a DPA seems to be an effective treatment for bump steer in a lifted Scout---but nobody likes the slower ratio and higher turning radius the available DPAs produce. I guess your Hi-steer setup is one solution to the bump steer problem?... but let's face it, it's a lot more desirable to buy one part for less than $100, vs. many parts for many $100s, not to mention the complicated install. Truth is, a lot of folks like me would never spend the money and time on the Hi-steer, but would love to have a lowered pitman arm if one were available with the correct geometry. And a guy like you could probably make a little money producing such a thing. You'd sure have the market cornered. EDIT: I should add, the complaints I've read were not directed at your DPAs. I'm sure yours have practical applications or you wouldn't be offering them. I just think there might be a market for a DPA that's a drop-in for a Scout that has a bit of SUA lift (4"-springs, longer shackles, etc.) and uses the stock drag link, TR, etc. Last edited by Patrick Morris : 06-30-2008 at 09:03 AM.

07-01-2008, 08:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
ihojeff Administrator Join Date: Jan 2007 Member Number: 1 Location: Loomis, CA(but soon to be Grass Valley) Posts: 712	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? In a nutshell - There is no such drop pitman arm that is the proper length for Scout II and at this time it is something that I am not interested in persuing due to the costs involved. __________________ Jeff Ismail IH Only North

07-01-2008, 02:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Patrick Morris Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Member Number: 148 Posts: 32	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? Okay. Thanks Jeff. Understood. That's too bad. Seems it could be a nice fix to a common problem. I guess it's moot to wonder why all the available dropped PAs---Skyjackers for example---aren't made to the full length of a factory PA. (Maybe they are modeled on none-P/S pitman arms?)

07-01-2008, 06:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
ihojeff Administrator Join Date: Jan 2007 Member Number: 1 Location: Loomis, CA(but soon to be Grass Valley) Posts: 712	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? Its definetely a nice fix to a common problem but I can see why they are not made. Its such a long pitman arm to begin with and then add in drop that sure is a lot of leverage being applied against the sector shaft. I'm sure liability insurance on that would be quite high. __________________ Jeff Ismail IH Only North

07-03-2008, 10:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
Patrick Morris Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Member Number: 148 Posts: 32	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? That's an excellent point; and one I hadn't considered. Thanks. Darn, the High-steer would likely cure any Scout's bump-steer, right? It's too pricey and involved a project to really consider, but I thought I'd ask. What about your #1 pitman arm? That's got a 3" drop and a 6.5" reach. Have you sold any of those to owners of Scouts with slight (3-4") of SUA lift? And if so, did you get any feedback from them? For the record, I'm using Skyjacker "2-inch" springs, your 5-inch shackles, and 3-degree shims between axle and springs. Uneven pavement tends to make the truck wander all over the place, and I'm blaming the angle of the drag link.

07-04-2008, 05:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
ihojeff Administrator Join Date: Jan 2007 Member Number: 1 Location: Loomis, CA(but soon to be Grass Valley) Posts: 712	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? Hi-steer is for SOA. Yes it will work for SUA but chances are the tierod will be an inch or two away from contacting the oilpan. Our #1 pitman arm is the same as the Scout drop pitman arm so no go there. From what you describe it sounds like you need more caster. If you haven't yet go get an alignment and verify your alignment readings before throwing more parts at it. __________________ Jeff Ismail IH Only North

07-05-2008, 03:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Patrick Morris Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Member Number: 148 Posts: 32	Re: Stock-length dropped pitman arm? Right. Thanks again Jeff. I started a thread about this on the BB, just to get a wider consensus. Maybe you've seen it. The other sages there say the same thing as you, and I've arrived at the same conclusion. I will verify that my caster isn't out of whack before fooling with pitman arms. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to find out it is off though. I figure it's smart to go ahead and replace my drag link and TREs though. They are pretty old. I'm also thinking about that Borgeson thing still. I was hoping they'd go on sale again, but maybe it's not worth waiting forever. I'll give you a call one of these days to place the order. DRAG LINK question: I'm assuming it allows adjustment, correct? What's the max and min for that adjustment?

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