Beer Can Maneefol Guapo

[Michael Mayben]

Dropped the beer can onto it's permanent home yesterday.

The rubber projections for retaining the intake manifold gaskets interfered with seating the maneefol, so one of the valve covers had to come back off to provide clearance. What a pleasure to be able to handle this lightweight unit and maneuver into place without disturbing the gasket alignment!

The intake gaskets got two coats of copper coat stickystuff to insure sealing, and that holds them in position really well for dropping the maneefol in place.

Rather than go with the new hardware Mike supplies with each unit, I elected to use new, iridite-finish grade 8 stuff I had on hand along with companion washers. ALL the bolt threads got a dab of Hylomar on the threads for sealing purposes and also anti-seize properties.

All new plumbing was run, this took even more time than I had expected considering the mock-up work I'd done on the bench. I revised the plumbing scheme somewhat once the unit was in place in order to simplify the runs and make things look a little neater. A flushing "tee" has been installed permanently in the heater inlet run to facilitate future cooling system maintenance.

Next the engine harness was installed before re-mounting the coil.

The carb mounted up really well, it's sitting on a Holley 3/8" phenolic heat dam, along with a 1/2" aluminum spacer. I verified hood clearance for the plenum using somma that SPECIAL, IH Only North pink Play Dough that the Ismail kiddos gifted me for this purpose last summer...an essential special tool/shop aid! It sits right on the shelf alongside the Transemble.

The dual throttle return springs are now in a much better line, that adds greatly to throttle pedal feel.

The earlier, non-A.I.R. style water neck worked out perfect, just like I had hoped. This really opens up the area adjacent to the distributor and provides much improved access for maintenance.

After an initial install of the air filtration system, I found it's necessary to shorten the 22 degree elbows to allow sufficient filter element clearance at the brake booster. Finishing up that detail and completing the revised fuel filtration/plumbing lash up is on today's punch list. Then it's time to light her off.

[Michael Mayben]

This deal is dun!

The air cleaners fit up just perfect, NO fudge factor at all though.

Had a nice little HD metal can fuel filter all plumbed in, but the SOB leaked like hell, the brazed-on flare fitting on the inlet side had a flaw and blew quite a bit of fuel out before I realized it. Luckily, the fresh paint work survived with no spotting from the blowout.

So I subbed in a temp plastic filter until I can make a town trip for another.

Once the fuel bowls on the carb filled, the bitch lit right off. The fresh lifters quieted down after 3>4 minutes of start and stop as they filled and pumped.

Right away I noticed EVERYTHING about the engine performance is different now (in a GUUD way)! The ignition system is freshly built with a Pertronix and the timing has been optimized previously. The idle exhaust note is COMPLETELY different now, idle quality was always really nice, but now it's absolutely electric motor smooth!

That's most likely because the intake gaskets had to have been leaking based upon manifold vacuum readings at idle, pre and post maneefol install. I had to adjust the idle mixture significantly different than before and gained 1.5"hg in the process (now 20.5"hg at 700ft. altitude).

And...the phantom exhaust leak that's been eating my lunch for two years is also GONE! I'd already diagnosed an exhaust leak underneath the intake and figgerd it to be rotted welch plugs. But when the OEM maneefol was off the rig, I could see that was not the case. However, there was evidence of gasket leakage at the exhaust crossover on the driver side.

After 30 minutes of idle, the lifters are now totally silent. In fact, I've never heard this engine running so smoothly and QUIET, no valve train noise whatsoever.

I finished off the air cleaner system by running the hose from the flame arrestor into a fitting inserted into a grommet in the driver side ell. Spectre has a really cool and complete package consisting of several grommets and Delrin fittings that can be used for insertion of various vacuum signal tubes, etc. as used on EFI stuff. The kit even comes with two different hole saws of the proper sizes, and the grommets are "contour" cut for insertion against a curved surface, really nice detail.

I next let it cool down and made a careful leak inspection. Managed to burp the cooling system without having to elevate the front end.

Then it was time for a test drive. I'm prolly the most skeptical person on the planet when it comes to "performance" claims for various bolt-on parts...been there, done that more times than I care to remember. However, in this case...I've experienced what I'm calling a significant overall performance boost, something that can be felt seat of the pants! Tip-in is MAJORLY improved, I just "thought" it was good before! The throttle response is NOTHING like it was previously, and the almost imperceptible flat spot in the power band at 1800rpm in a full throttle/heavy load launch is GONE!

There is no doubt this motor was somewhat tired, hardware-wise. Just replacing the intake gaskets woulda had a major effect on drivability, which was more than acceptable previously. However, now we got a whole new motor to play with, I can't wait to get the trailerhouse hooked behind and go see what REALLY changed!

And tossin' out the OEM lifters for the new superquiet models, has resulted in electric motor smoothness.

Next up is the radiator re-do and mount improvement project. Then the rear spring bushings git refreshed and that will complete the beater project for another year.

Oh yeah...regarding them cheeseball air filters. Kinda wierdass new "sound" when ya put yore foot down. Makes a kinda high pitched "whirring" noise, dam near like a pair of turbos spoolin' up! I'm still looking for the "dust shields" that Spectre no longer offers for those filter elements, that may attenuate the noise. If I can't find 'em, then I'll rig somma those "sand boots" on 'em like the buggyboys run on the sandrails and see what that does.

Since I don't wear my hearing aids most of the time, the noise don't bother me, but it'll drive the dawgs crazy!

Overall...it's too early to tell about a true performance enhancement based upon ONLY the install of the beer can unit. But...once I make a few town trips and trailerpulls with it, I'll definitely follow up with some info. Right now, I'm VERY pleased with what my dinero brought me, and that's on TOP of the BLING FACTOR!

[holokaibrown]

Michael I gotta say this is an awesome write up!!!!


The engine looks good. I've never seen an inline coolant flusher set up like you got there(thats not really saying much) I bet it makes flushing much easier!!

Holokai

[Michael Mayben]

Thanks for the compliments Holokai!

That's a really simple little Prestone "Flush n' Fill" kit sold at most any parts houses. Even the local wallyworlds carry 'em.

The inline "tee" fitting is included in the kit, I buy extra ones from the Dorman "Help" line kinda stuff (all IH light duty vehicles use 5/8" heater hose throughout) and leave 'em in place with the cap tightened securely. They are nicely made of Delrin and will not leak if installed/maintained properly.

I've rigged a quickconnect water hose fitting on the backflow preventer which is included in the kits, that makes hooking up the water hose much easier and ya can control the water flow rate using the ball valve made into the quick coupler.

And extra length of hose on the filler neck diverter ensures the flush water goes well overboard and NOT down the grill/radiator where the cooling fan picks it up and blows it back on the engine/windshield.

I DON'T use the "fill" procedure of this kit. That's too much trouble. I just dump the stuff in the radiator directly, usually takes about an hour of running to get all the air burped outta the system if you are running a crossflow radiator.

The biggest problem in using systems like this to backflush a cooling system, is what to do with the stuff as it comes out. Each of us deals with this in his own way, but I'd advocate handling the waste material in a proper fashion based upon local practices in your area.

This rig is currently running on straight water during the shakedown phase. As soon as I've freshened the radiator AGAIN...I'll install the 50/50 glycol mix.

[Tate]

Man Michael I thought you were going to keep that thing looking stock.
I just don't understand why you would want to spend the money to put an aluminum intake onto an IH it isn't going to really help your HP.
To all of you who don't know me I am only kidding please don't kick me off the board.
Tate

[holokaibrown]

I definently need to get one of those flushing kits!! Living above where I paddle and swim everyday is some good motivation to watch what I dump down the drain!

[Michael Mayben]

That Tate...he's SUCH a joker! He spends TOO MUCH time on the Binder Bulletin!

He just WISHES he had a beer can unit for Knute which may someday be an ultimate rat rod...a 4x4 squarebody T'ette with a SERVICE BODY to serve as "sleeping pods"/condo for his kiddos! Next up he'll be wantin' to slam it and KEEP the 4x4! And in his part of the world, he can RENT them hiphop NBA spinner wheels by the weekend to complete the package.

I KNEW my comment about "proper fashion" would ring yore bell Holokai! I wouldn't even think about driving my rig in Pacific Grove without rigging a DIAPER on it!

I started a "milage test" yesterday, I'll report the results next week. That will be followed by our first tow of the trailerhouse since blowin' rattlecan on everything.

The beater radiator repair and re-mount has been sidetracked while I rigged up an eBay-sourced radiator shroud for the S80, it's now gotta "hi-tek" cooling system that's FRESH!

This deal ain't dun yet!

[Michael Mayben]

OK...on to Phase II...


The front clip of Scout II and "D" body stuff flexs terribly in offroad sitches. The radiator core support is a really shitty design and poorly done...that allows the radiator shroud (which is also a really scruuball design) to hit the fan, resulting in major damage to a part that is unobtanium (at least ya can buy a NEW shroud for a SII). It also places MUCHO stress on the radiator and creates leaks in solder joints throughout.

I was fortunate to obtain a near-virgin shroud that just required a slight amount of fiberglas/body work to make pristine. I sure didn't wanna waste it! I've seen several attempts to "float" the radiator using rubber washers...that won't work and will most likely make the sitch worse since the radiator is free to move around too much, aggravating the sitch. If the washers are drawn up tight, then that's NOT an "insulating" mount and makes no difference! One dude sent me pics of his re-engineering...he used rubber HOSE WASHERS robbed outta his garden hoses to try a similar deal!!!! How do ya tell sombody ya NEVER MET that they are full of guapo????

Using off-the-shelf polyurethane components from Energy Suspension (hanging on the wall at any Autozone or Pep Boys!), this is what I came up with. No big deal, this same design is used throughout the heavy truck industry for similar situations, and we (my former company, ZEXEL) used it for mounting many forms of heat exchangers on passenger cars and trucks.

The single bushing kit makes TWO mount sets that can be used on either fullsize IH stuff or Scout II. I cut the bushings in half using a bandsaw with the bushings mounted onna bolt for a mandrel. The spacers were cut from an aftermarket dip stick tube made for a big block Chev motor, I used the dip stick itself in my 392 and it's a PERFECT fit/length! That tubing is absolutely PERFECT for making the spacers, it slides snugly inside the bushings and the 5/16" bolt is exactly the right fit inside the tubing. The key to this deal is the use of the spacers along with the FLANGE section of the poly bushing to FLOAT the radiator frame in relation to the core support. That's IMPERATIVE! Rubber will never survive being used for this, the sharp edge of the radiator mount flange will eat right through it, ONLY polyurethane will hold up!

Also...the large concave washers included in the ES bushing set is PERFECT for the spacer to slide through the center hole and complete the sandwich package!!!!

The four existing mounting holes on the radiator frame must be opened up to 0.685", I did that with a carbide burr in a Dremel handpiece...real EZ and fast and as can be seen, the holes don't have to be perfect...just snug enuff to help hold the urethane bushing in place in the "step".

This spaces the radiator back 1/4", still had PLENTY room for the fan-to-radiator clearance, in fact, it makes the fan-to-shroud "stickout" even BETTER as far as design goes for air sukkage! My rig uses the HD "big nut" fan clutch made by Eaton. To prevent any air "spill" around the radiator frame at the core support interface, I used foam weatherstrip, that's also commonly done in the "modern" car bizz for the same purpose...air flow CONTROL!

Use the longer mounting bolts to pull the package up SNUG to the core support, then run the prevailing torque lock nuts onto the tag end of the bolts where they stick through the weld nuts on the core support to prevent the bolts from backing out. The whole deal may need to be "adjusted" once the urethane bushings settle in a little.

The shroud is now retained/supported much more securely, I used off-the-shelf Chev valve cover retainer/spreaders from CP Products. That package includes EIGHT retainers, enough for TWO vehicles/systems. The shitball mounting system for the shroud IH used is ANOTHER reason for shroud breakage...what the hell were they thinking (obviously NOT thinking!)???? That blingy chrome adds a touch of class and makes the whole dam underhood look like a Chev or Ford that's been to Pep Boys for a vacation. I'm sure it'll rust real quick so it'll look like the rest of the IH crap!

I now have about 600 miles on the fresh radiator package and all is well! Made two pulls of the trailerhouse now, one just this past weekend to the Binder Bee with Jeff and the fambly unit in his GROSSLY OVERLOADED rig bringin' up the rear. Engine temp remains as steady as it it always has, not even a rise on the uphills with the load behind, rig crossed the scales with the trailerhouse at 11,000lbs.

Next installment will be some fuel milage data.

[Michael Mayben]

OK...the final milage numbers are confirmed...I'm ESTATIC!

The numbers got skewed a few weeks back when I experienced a first-ever primary fuel system float collapse. That really punked out the milage as obviously the carb was in the death throes for awhile, a quick re-build brought it back to life so I started over on the milage tests.

In two 250+ mile towtrips with the 11,000lb. gross rolling load (6600lbs. on the weight equalized beater and 4400lbs. on the toad), the milage is consistent at 9.5mpg at an average 60mph.

Several tanks of fuel on the "normal" beater configuration (5600lb. gross) prove out to 11.5mpg.

The BEST milage ever noted in the POS in the last 8 years, has been 12mpg UNLOADED/no toolbox/shell/jerry cans about 5 years ago going DOWNHILL on I-5 in messkikalifornikate. And that has NEVER been repeated.

So...is the beer can device responsible for this VAST IMPROVEMENT??? Maybe not all of it, but it dam shore helps!

Benefits:

INSTANT cold starts...far superior to ANY EFI system no matter how well dialed in.

DECREASED cold engine warmup time, it's possible to drop into "D" and drive away just as soon as the fast idle rpm stabilizes.

THROTTLE RESPONSE at any point is vastly improved, not a hint of "throttle lag" as experienced with any EFI system in a "drive by wire" scenario.

HOT restarts are improved, though the starting process has changed now due to the intake system improvements, took a while to figger out the best procedure.

ENGINE TEMP "cool-down" is greatly enhanced between hot restarts, no doubt a MAJOR benefit of the vastly improved heat exchange capability provided by the blocked exhaust crossovers and the beer can maneefol. This is aided by the use of the phenolic heat dam under the carb.

THE LOSS of mass created by dumping the cast iron chunk makes up for the additional weight added to the front end by the Optima yellertop auxiliary battery install.

SUKKER looks cool and fools all idiots into thinkin' it'sa weirdass Ford motor of some kind.

Downside:

NONE!

Next up...a major re-do of the exhaust system (naw, no headers for me, the "quality" of the available pieces leaves me cold). That stuff is now 7 years old and rotten again, and it sounds like some riceboytoy hangin' down at the local crackhouse...time to grow up and add the senior citizen touch/discount.

[Tate]

Still just looks like a bunch of bling bling to me! I will have to post up some shots of my re-gasketing and painting. I may even have to pull off the radiator mounting that you did. If momma would set me free for the aluminum intake I would be all over that. New Cannon 5 pin usb cable is on it's way to the house.
Tate

[Michael Mayben]

Well about three weeks ago, my adopted bubbaboy Skip showed up at el aeropuerto in Eujerzzee bummin' a ride back up to La Casa.

Soons he jumped in the beater he sez..."what the hail is wrong with yore carb????".

Since I PERSONALLY am trainin' Skip in carfixin'...that REALY pissed me off...now he's caught ME with a crapball carbamixer on that shiny beercan maneefol! That WON'T do!

So today I took time off to work on hizownself's stuff. The "lean surge" has gotten worse since we parked the trailerhouse end of October. So now's the time to take care of the final deetale in this story.

When draggin' trailer around, tha carb stays on the power valve nearly all the time (a #65) and that MASKS overly lean jetting in the primary circuit.

The Holley LIST 80457S ("S" stands for SHINEE) comes setup with a pair of #65 in the primary. But when it was dialed in for tha motor several years back, it liked a pair of #62 holes by the seat of MY pants.

Now that the crapball breathes a little more EZ (due to the maneefol and air cleaner setup), the leaness at cruise was really noticable inna "surge" at 35>50mph. Once the power valve would crack, then that covered the condition and the lean surge went away. The secondaries start kickin' in at about the same point the power valve begins to open (I gotta "quick change" top on this carb that allows real quick secondary tweekin') which further enrichens the overall mix at that point.

So I ran another baseline on the engine analyzer and verified NOTHIN' had changed ignition-wise over the last few months (a P-1 Per-tron is down in the distributor). With the #62 main jets, idle A/F was 13.3:1, and CO was 2.75%. 2500rpm with no load on the motor showed 13.6:1 A/F ratio, with a CO of 2.0%. Overall...considerably LEAN for an oldskool motor with a very low VE factor.

Then I popped the carb off and re-jetted the primaries to #66 and stuck it back on.

After a full warm up (20 minutes minimum) with tha greater flow volume holes, the numbers showed as A/F of 13.0:1 and a CO 3.4% at idle. 2500rpm/no load showed 12.9:1 A/F and a CO reading of 4.0%.

Now keep in mind...this izza exhaust gas analyzer from the EXACT point in time when these rigs were NEW (late 60's>early 70's)! Not sum dam fancyazz "emissions analyzer" with 5 gas capability! For comparison purposes...the federal emissions numbers for M/Y 1975>77 vehicles regarding CO% at idle is 7.50%.

Then I took it out on the road for a test spin in tha rain. IMMEDIATELY I found that tip-in was improved (that's a REAL ++), and the beech pulled a bit harder than ever before. At cruise rpm, the lean surge (read lean MISFIRE!) was GONE and everythang is right with the world.

So that's my story, I AIN'T gonna scruu with it no more. Leavin' here for about six weeks on Dec.15 with the trailerhouse in tow, I'll look at mileage numbers agin since the carb has been richened a tad. I don't expect it to go down, in fact, it might improve a tiny bit since the lean miss is now history and the throttle plate angle/manifold vacuum improvement at "cruise" on the level road with the trailer should give us a few more cents to a mile??

I've had a BUNCHA emails about this whole beercan maneefol dealybob, most especially regarding the carb setup. So here's the dial-in as it exists right now:

Holley LIST 80457S (electric choke), 600cfm, vacuum secondary carb
a) #66 primary main jets (stock is #65)
b) #39 secondary plate (stock)
c) #65 "picture window" power valve (two stage PV did NUTHIN' for this setup!)
d) #31 accel pump shooter (stock)
e) orange accel pump cam installed in #2 hole (stock is #1 hole)
f) accel pump lever setting is 0.017" clearance at WOT
g) Primary and secondary floats set "level".

And for Skipster..."it AIN'T broke no more!!". I'm takin' the analyzer on the road to Tejas and we'll see just how much YOU have lernt when we wire it in on yore fleet!

[Michael Mayben]

A LOTTA pusholine has run through the beater since the last time I updated this thread!

The 7500+ mile trailer pull to Texas and back gave an average mpg of less than 3! Over 1,000 miles of that was sloggin' through much snow/ice chained up also, and MUCH idling time due to jammed up road conditions. Then another 1800 mile trailer pull down to IHON in April made completing the dial-in imperative due to the HUGE increase in fuel costs since last fall.

In the interim, the rig has been parked and tagged DO NOT OPERATE due to fuel costs that don't fit my "no income" budget.

But...I've been motivated to keep workin' tha bitch until I can afford to use it occasionally again...so the current sitch is outlined in this thread:

Holley Modular Carb Tuning Info

Once the FINAL, final numbers are in, I'll make a final post to this thread to wrap it up.

I've recently built a fresh Holley 0-4412 500cfm Model 2300 carb with some "economy" tweeks. That is a 2V carb which is the mainstay "rules" carb used in many forms of roundyround competition. I HATE using adapters on manifold/carb combos, but I'm gonna do so with this carb just to see what happens to performance...and to prove (or disprove) a point!

[Michael Mayben]

OK, got some final performance/milage data to report, along with what I'm calling the FINAL carb setup:

In normal driving mode with a curb weight of 5600lbs. (superduperpig) nominal, tha bitch is runnin' 12mpg under all conditions (that city/highway gummint crap don't mean shit to me!).

With the trailer on and a full load of momma and dawgs (12,000lb. GCVWR) we saw 9mpg both directions on the pull to the Binder Bee and back.

That's it, I'm done with carb-scruuin' for now. I'm back to being ecstatic about this setup and drivability is EXCELLENT!

For those looking atta similar setup (392 only), here's the final carb stats:

1) Holley 4160, LIST 80457 (w/electric choke)
2) #31 shooter
3) Orange accel pump cam, #2 hole
4) WOT accel pump lever clearance set to 0.015"
5) Primary/secondary fuel bowl levels set to 1/32" BELOW window
6) #39 secondary metering plate
7) Original vacuum secondary spring under a quick-change top
8) #64 main jets
9) #25 two-stage power valve, Holley p/n 125-207, 10.5”Hg/5.0”Hg setpoint

This setup gives an idle A/F ratio of 13.2:1 with a CO reading of 3% Federal emissions specs for M/Y 1975 allowed a CO of 7.5%! I've not run the rig on the highway with the exhaust gas analyzer on it (mine is portable), but the A/F ratio at cruise under load with the power valve cracked will tell the tale!

So now it's back to optimizing the ignition system. Current setup is a FRESH Holley points distributor for an EGR application that's converted to a standard Pertronix. The EGR advance curve is nowhere near correct for this motor, under light cruise conditions detonation comes and goes. Holley distributors are a PITA to deal with when re-curving if ya don't have a distributor machine to run it on. My poorboy approach involves a dialback timing light, a vernier adjuster for the throttle actuator (an oldskool "throttle prop"), and an accurate shop tach.

I have a fresh Delco distributor under construction that is Pertonixized to play this game with. The centrifugal advance stuff for that unit is ON TOP so it's easily accessed and springs/weights can be changed on the side of the road. I have several complete sets of oldskool weights and springs to play with, along with a "lockout" for the vacuum advance AND an "adjustable" vacuum advance unit (performance item available through either ACCEL, Mallory, Crane).

And for comparative purposes, I just received a REALLY oldskool Mallory dual point unit (mechanical advance only) to play with also, this one is virtually new! These are still available for IH apps, along with both the Unilite and the mag-trigger versions. They do NOT ship with a drive gear, the installer must swap a gear from a dead IH distributor to complete. But we're working on sourcing distributor drive gears now, Dorman does NOT have an aftermarket gear for the IH pattern distributors.

And I picked up two Holley governed distributors last weekend courtesy of Matt G.! Both are Pertronix-converted from school bus apps of a 392 and the curves in those look very attractive for a performance-built 392 on paper. Both are Holley cast iron super-duty units, one with a tach drive, one without.

Once the distributor sitch is optimized (this will take some time), then an ignition "box" will be added back into the mix. Which box (MSD, Mallory, or Crane) will depend upon which distributor with which trigger I end up making resident!

My ultimate goal is a ragged edge timing setpoint, with a manually-operated "dial back" control for use when towing in the mountains (most of our use) at altitudes in excessive of 3000ft. The Mallory and MSD boxes offer that capability.

[Matt G]

Glad I could help - what in the world would I do with 2 governed school bus distributors!?

[AmerIHCan]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayben

... The front clip of Scout II and "D" body stuff flexs terribly in offroad sitches. The radiator core support is a really shitty design and poorly done...that allows the radiator shroud (which is also a really scruuball design) to hit the fan, resulting in major damage to a part that is unobtanium (at least ya can buy a NEW shroud for a SII). It also places MUCHO stress on the radiator and creates leaks in solder joints throughout...

-I was browsing 2300 carb problems/issues/magic here today, decided to take a break from my "sorrows" to read sumpin' else interesting from you Michael... and here I find you (and some* others) have done what I was considering yesterday:

---Here I thought that it was just me. Two different Scout II bodies, two different radiators and yesterday I found that my second radiator was developing cracks in the solder where the bracket and radiator tank is joined. Same corner, bottom driver's side had to be cleaned, fluxed and soldered. No, I am not too happy about the shoddy repair, but I'm more sure about my plumbing skills than I am trusting to a self-tapping sheet metal screw and high temp RTV.

---How are the bushing dealybob's holding up? I just so happen to have four old ES shock stud bushings and some 3/8" steel, double wall, transmission line that is ready and willing to be hacked up and used for spacers. Big TY for pointing me where I was considering going!

---I sure would like to meet the man/machine who made all those perfect "sweats". Each area looks to have lead solder weighed and applied... and I had to go changing design by adding 1oz to the lower corner. Do you think I'll develop sag on the driver's side and have to add a spring spacer on the passenger's because of the added weight? <jk>

---Love the looks of that aloominium intake. If more people knew about where to find us, surely more would have sold. Would you believe that a lot of the International dealerships and parts houses I had visited in IL, MI and here in AL still had GUS in their rolodexes for Scout Parts even as recent as last year? My respects again to the hard working boys who put their IH Red blood and sweat into the intake and your air cleaner setup looks a heck of a lot cheaper than the one I am considering